Suspension again!

[weirdo]

Can it be done with the forks in situ?
When I undo the top cap it does not lift off do you have to compress the fork leg to expose the locknut underneath the cap?
and may be thinner oil?

You do need to compress the fork leg to expose the locknut, to adjust it in situ would be very awkward on a v-rap.
If you're considering thinner oil you'll need to whip the forks out anyway, to clean out all of the original heavier stuff. (don't forget for that upgrade you need some spacers).


Slarty recommended 5w oil, but that was a few days ago so he's probably on 3-in-1 oil or kerosene or something by now . He'll probably have to stop when he gets to soapy water in place of oil

Seriously though it sounds a good beneficial mod, and i will be doing it at some point.

[slartybartfarst]

LOL

As weirdo says if you want to replace the oil you must remove the forks but its not as bigger job as you might think.....

1) Loosen fork top nuts, wheel spindle, calliper bolts but do not undo completely (easyer to do before the bike is lifted)
2) Flick side stand down support on the oppside to the side stand with a jack or bricks! so the front is just touching (or if you have a pukka stand use that)
3) Pile more brick/wood under neathe case it falls Eeek!
4) Remove mudguard.
5) Remove wheel spindle/wheel, callipers (don't squeeze front brake lever if u can help it)
6) Mark the fork legs in some way so you know to put them back same way round )( it dont help to redistribute the wear patterns of the 2 halves ).
7)Loosen allen bolts on fork clamps pull out one leg, leave the other in and nip up the allen bolts one the one still in place in case in falls again. better to boing a bit on a fork leg rather than front exhaust!

Work on one fork leg, put back in, and then work on the other (grease threads and spindle) and remember you need to drop them through the top clamp at least 10mm from the origanal position. And if you are not doing the rear triangles mods you may have to drop them through more.

Assembly is simply a matter of keeping in mind if you get it wrong on your track day when you brake you will be able to get both knees down!...... simultaneously!! .........and in a straight line!!! And despite considerable advances in modern medicine the coming together of fork legs and eye balls inevitably results in a lengthy and involved surgical procedure/hospital stay!!

LOL double checking fixing tightness is all that's required!

To do the spacer preload and not remove the forks.....
You could support the bike and whip off the top fork nuts then space out the 20mm of spring preload needed with a spacer under the nut thats under the fork top nut or........... alternatively you could pull the springs and try furkin out the plastic spacer at the bottom and making the spacer in the diagrams ive shown but this seems like a lot of work to have still not sorted the oil.

Whatever option Im sure you will need to get the rap ground clearance up for a good track day, like you say the rear is up on pre-load (but i would reccomend the triangles mod).

If I may offer the best track day advice I was given..... to stop corner bail outs think "slow in fast out" the principal being it makes you think about how you are going to exit a corner if you get it wrong no real worries as opposed to finding out your too fast as you hit the apex.
Only when you get your exits sorted start building entry speeds.

See attached pic for the current setup ride height/ground clearance.

Have fun

[Mighty Mariner]

superb, I'll get all the stuff I need and give it a bash it bash this weekend
thanks guys

[weirdo]

http://www.roadracers.co.uk/suspension.htm

Found this on another site. you may be able to get some insight from it.

[Ballacraine]

What a gem of a find!

Thanks for the link!

Nige.

[weirdo]

Bumpitty bump.

[exposuredesigns]

Thanks for the bump weirdo, that's why i couldnt see anything - i was looking in the raptor 1000 files...

Just a question on the jack plates. If i make the holes 52mm instead of 57mm apart (double the reduction) - will that double the increase in height as a result..? I need to get mine up 50mm (2 inches) from where it is now. If that will result in the desired increase, will it result in any other issues - such as chain on the exshaust and battery box fouling..?

[dizzyblonde]

Changing the triangles to jack up the rear can pose problems with fouling the link pipe on the chain side. I recall Carnivore having to 'persuade'* the pipe slightly so the chain didn't rub, when he did this.

*hit with a large object

[slartybartfarst]

First tension the chain according to the manual (25mm wacker )in the middle lower run but to make sure this was not too tight I secured the bike to the ramp and jacked the swing arm into the chains tightest position and spun the rear wheel........sure enough no tight spots ....so it looks like the manual figure of 25mm is sound.

I have changed the triangles and wound up the shocker and the chain is just "tinkeling" (technical term!) on the pipe when the bike is moved but once im sitting on its clear.

So take a look at the pic with the measurements showing ground to under the foot rest mount distance i reckon this is as far as you can get it ( accepting the chain tensioned right).

Take a look at the neat chain roller someone posted thats would get you another 25 mm at the rear i guess.




I

[weirdo]

I have changed the triangles and wound up the shocker and the chain is just "tinkeling" (technical term!) on the pipe when the bike is moved but once im sitting on its clear.

Don't forget mate that when the bike is pulling the top run of the chain is bar tight and that is when the bottom run is at its slackest. Not so much under acceleration, but the rest of the time when the back end aint squatting, is when the chain is most likely to rub on the link pipe.

Just to add, i changed my fork oil 2 weeks ago for 2.5w from 10w (i didn't have any soapy water ), and left a 95mm air gap. I didn't add any spacers (brand new progressive springs, i thought i'd try without), and she's totally transformed ! I can feel the road rather than bounce over it, she doesn't go any where near as wide on corners, and she hasn't bottomed out as yet.

"HURRAH !!" says the weird one, "HURRAH !!"" (am i tempting fate here?)

[slartybartfarst]

Weird 1 you may have nailed it then the 2.5 oil is the answer?

It just shows how far out the 10w is. In reality the spacers are mainly raising the ride height the spring rate is the important part I think the Hagon progressive springs are a lot nearer the mark than standards.

On the chain run mines not marking the pipe so im ok as yet.

Could you do me a favour and measure the dimensions Ive shown on previous post so i can compare to mine. Under rear foot rest hanger and underside of the fork to clamp to the ground with the bike held level under its own weight.

My guess is 10W was perfect in Italy when they tested it on an average day at 35 deg! That is a proper country where the sun shines and it stops bloody raining long enough to to go anywhere and there is anywhere worth going and when you get there you can a least get decent coffee.....sorry just come back from Tuscany feel ing a bit pi***d off UK and its weather!

[Demansia]

Hi All,

An update on my progress... I have fitted the Falco rear shock (already has triangles fitted) & fiddled with the rebound to get it where i'm happy.
Wow! What a difference it makes & how much does it accentuate how bad the forks are.

So i went out and spent a nice sunny winters afternoon pounding through the corners of "The Putty Road" (Aussies will know what i'm talking about) which has a 30km winding section of 35kmh, 45kmh & 55kmh corners that snakes down through a gorge & up the other side, just to turn around & blast back through it again & again (dodging officer plod).
The bike handles so much better & carries corner speeds faster than before.

Needless to say that this little outing destroyed what was left of my rear 2CT & i think it's a good time to put the Rap up on stands & finally do Slarty's fork mod.

I think i will start with the 5W oil as we get those nice 35+ degree days in summer (just around the corner now). I'll report back in around a month, as i've given myself 4 weeks to give the Rap a good going over before i hit the track at end of Sept.
To Do List:
Fork Rebuild
Chain & Sprockets (520 Conversion)
Full Service
Brake Fluid Change
Rear Tyre
& maybe try & fit the 08 GSXR600 Headlight i have sitting in the shed to give her that modern fighter look.

Cheers Chad

[slartybartfarst]

Chad

Ok don't rub it in you have that thing called the sun as well. We used to use the sun a bit, we don't want much just now and again would do........but stop then again I must be wrong!.........we have a hose pipe ban and water shortage?

But I thought Id seen rain every bloody day for 2 months so we must need even more rain?.........Or could the fact that the water companies have sold off reservoir land to provide big bonuses and dividends have something to do with it........ Nah silly me that would mean we have put a bunch of short sighted w*****s in charge of our precious water LOL!



Rear shock n triangles sounds to have got the rear sorted real well.

Is the 520 chain a bigger chain than whats on now, if so it may get nearer the exaust and with the rear jacked up that may be enough to make it rub.

A new rear tyre transformed my Rap when my forks were still not modded like the tail was wagging the dog, with the forks modded the condition of the dont have the same effect on the front Im not saying its worse just not such a strong influence now.

If you get chance ride the bike with the new rear on and un modded forks do it then you can tell what the fork mods do in isolation.

I think if you already have sorted rear suspension you will be amazed by the front mod and a new rear tyre.

[Demansia]

FRONT FORK FIX!!!
Before I start I must say we both have progressive Hagon fork springs and although these seemed promising when initialy fitted ( before this mod) that disappointing 40mm sag was still there and as we know most of the front fork movement is wasted before you even sit on the bike.

In addition we both have modified triangles that jack up the rear...again this improves the rear end suspension and ground clearance but tips weight forwards and the forks really show up!

So to the mod. The first part gets the spring compressed and provides a sensible bench mark 15mm sag.

Slarty,

I'm just about ready & good to go undertaking your fork mod. Now i have just acquired a headstock & rear stands from a mate, i have taken some preliminary measurements of the static & laden sags so i have a base point.

static sag is 9mm & laden sag (with rider) is 44mm. see pic below
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/42 ... directlink
pic is taken at static sag with the zip tie showing the sag with rider.

now these seem a whole lot more reasonable than the static 40mm you were getting before adding a rider, but until i get them open i don't know how they have been set up (air gap, preload, oil weight, plastic tube length, etc).

I have always complained that my forks were way to hard for road riding, giving a very jolting ride on bumpy roads. But on the track they have always been good. I think that i have the opposite problem from you in that my forks only seem to use the first part of their travel where as yours due to the sag used the last part of travel & bottomed out.

I'm going to break them down & take a look at how they are set up & i will start a new thread with pics & descriptions of my findings.

Cheers

Chad

[slartybartfarst]

Chad

Your right for whatever reason your forks dont seem to sag as much as both mine and my mates bikes did.

Could you measure the free length of the springs and plastic spacer tubes and ill measure mine we would like to try and nail why some forks are lower, guess if the measurements we get are the same it must be the air gap?

On the up side my Rap is totally stable cornering, no flappy bars or jolts and thunk getting through and ive sussed the clutch so 2nd gear take offs just hoik up the front wheel...very civilised!

Let me know what you find
Cheers