3000 rpm gritch at temperature under 80 deg C

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Aloud
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3000 rpm gritch at temperature under 80 deg C

Post by Aloud »

Hi fellows,
after four years without almost any problems and enjoying of performance of my bike, this year it became awful and very unpleasant to ride...
I have checked everything from the fuel system, throttle bodies, injectors and all the sensors to the ECM.
Everything is in operational but same time this 3000 rpm glitch is till exist.
I have read few topics and of course this one: TPS reset
I have read about similar problem in TL forum too.
I still could not believe that this bike has had this problem from the very beginning...
Just wondering if all know about such a problem, why it was not solved, yet?

What do you think?
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Crap Tartan
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by Crap Tartan »

cagiva chose not to fix any issues with the Raptor!

I can make you one of my magic boxes if that helps?

Easy to do yourself if you can handle a soldering iron.....................................
nil illigitimae carborundum
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snapdragon
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by snapdragon »

As it's an accepted part of the character of the engine - and we all accept it, or work around it, or make adjustments to change it

I firmly believe it's still there to stop boring people riding Raptors :evil: :nod: :thumbsup:
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TLPower
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by TLPower »

It can be sorted.

The throttle position sensor adjustment is critical to smooth running.

The kit that Crap Tartan fits really does work, I fitted a version to My Navigator ( same engine , same issues) and it does take the ecu off the "cold " map earlier thus removing the warm up glitch.

Good luck.
Aloud
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by Aloud »

I do not quite agree.
As I am riding the bike for the last five years I think I know it pretty well.
Certain problems occur this year and it was not until the engine went into operation.
Effect that occurs to me is this. At temperature below 79 degrees there is a "hole" of about 3000 rpm. I.e. opening throttle pass smoothly and turnover increased proportionally. Upon reaching 3000 rpm, continuing to submit smooth power, but revs remains the same. Same time there is no change in the sound of the engine noise, means that they really do not change. Then comes a moment of "opening" and the engine very quickly catching up revs from there, next no problems at all.
The most interesting is that this problem disappears when the temperature gets 79-80 degrees. EVERY TIME!

I still think there is a problem in one (why not both) of the both sensors: ECT or TPS.

The ECT is a resistive sensor, while the TPC is in practical a potentiometer. In this line of thought, wondering if it is possible the problem is in it?
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Miz
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by Miz »

Aloud wrote:55 years agoI do not quite agree.
As I am riding the bike for the last five years I think I know it pretty well.
Certain problems occur this year and it was not until the engine went into operation.
Effect that occurs to me is this. At temperature below 79 degrees there is a "hole" of about 3000 rpm. I.e. opening throttle pass smoothly and turnover increased proportionally. Upon reaching 3000 rpm, continuing to submit smooth power, but revs remains the same. Same time there is no change in the sound of the engine noise, means that they really do not change. Then comes a moment of "opening" and the engine very quickly catching up revs from there, next no problems at all.
The most interesting is that this problem disappears when the temperature gets 79-80 degrees. EVERY TIME!

I still think there is a problem in one (why not both) of the both sensors: ECT or TPS.

The ECT is a resistive sensor, while the TPC is in practical a potentiometer. In this line of thought, wondering if it is possible the problem is in it?

I think I'll agree with Snap, you are looking at "a problem" that does not really create a problem, you need to look at enjoying the bike, I almost enjoy the fact that the Xtra hates to be in towns and loves to be out in the country, where generally you never need to be below 3,000rpm
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Aloud
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by Aloud »

Sorry but again I can not agree with you.
I can say this bike is perfect for riding as out of country as in the towns 8)
I ride it almost all of the year except in the winter, of course. But not and this year :(
As I told before for sure there is a problem with my bike. I will not stop till I find and solve it.
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dizzyblonde
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by dizzyblonde »

Aloud wrote:55 years agoI do not quite agree.
As I am riding the bike for the last five years I think I know it pretty well.
Certain problems occur this year and it was not until the engine went into operation.
Effect that occurs to me is this. At temperature below 79 degrees there is a "hole" of about 3000 rpm. I.e. opening throttle pass smoothly and turnover increased proportionally. Upon reaching 3000 rpm, continuing to submit smooth power, but revs remains the same. Same time there is no change in the sound of the engine noise, means that they really do not change. Then comes a moment of "opening" and the engine very quickly catching up revs from there, next no problems at all.
The most interesting is that this problem disappears when the temperature gets 79-80 degrees. EVERY TIME!

I still think there is a problem in one (why not both) of the both sensors: ECT or TPS.

The ECT is a resistive sensor, while the TPC is in practical a potentiometer. In this line of thought, wondering if it is possible the problem is in it?

So, what you are saying is at tick over, its not happy until 80degrees? I'm assuming both cylinders kick in at 79 and then its ok?
Next time you start up, put your hand over the exhaust can spout, and see if one is cold and not blowing, or if both are blowing and heating at the same time.

If only one warms up first, then the second kicks in at 79......look at your rear spark plug, and tells us what you find. It's either going to be on the black side and not sparking, and a clean will suffice, or replacing.
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TLPower
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by TLPower »

From the symptoms you so eloquently describe, I believe your bike is displaying the "Suzuki warm up glitch".

It would appear that you have been very fortunate in the past and your bike did not suffer this most irritating fault. It does now. The earlier TL1000's were sorted by fitting hotter thermostats and modified pipework. I understand that three different ecus' have been developed to try and sort the various fueling issues. Cagiva developed their own for the Raptor and the Navigator.

With my limited understanding the slow warm-up ensures an over-rich air/fuel ratio causing the fault you have. New plugs and leads could make a hotter spark to burn this rich mixture, but an over rich ratio is what you have.

Please read. http://raptorchapter.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3877 and
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/frequent-t ... oblem.html
Aloud
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by Aloud »

dizzyblonde wrote:55 years ago
Aloud wrote:55 years ago...
So, what you are saying is at tick over, its not happy until 80degrees? I'm assuming both cylinders kick in at 79 and then its ok?
Next time you start up, put your hand over the exhaust can spout, and see if one is cold and not blowing, or if both are blowing and heating at the same time.

If only one warms up first, then the second kicks in at 79......look at your rear spark plug, and tells us what you find. It's either going to be on the black side and not sparking, and a clean will suffice, or replacing.
After start up both the exhaust are blowing and heating at the same time.
Till this year I used iridium spark plug, but after the problem occur I have change them with ordinary for the model CR8EК.
But no change at all. The iridium sparks ware in very good condition.
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RaptorJo
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by RaptorJo »

What is this black box you speak of ? Where does it fit? Mine only had a slight glitch but since it had a new coil it's been a right bugger until warm.
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Crap Tartan
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by Crap Tartan »

RaptorJo wrote:55 years agoWhat is this black box you speak of ? Where does it fit? Mine only had a slight glitch but since it had a new coil it's been a right bugger until warm.
Jo, read this thread http://www.raptorchapter.org.uk/viewtop ... =11&t=3790
and check out the pics to see where/how it fits.

Dead easy and only cost a few quid to make............................... and it works!
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xraptor8
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by xraptor8 »

Recently had a new clutch cable and actuator fitted.

I commute 8 miles into central london every day, and this has never been an issue.

Occasionally she is chuggy at lower temps, but I never had the full glitch that many of you seem to have experienced, and now it has reared it's ugly head.

Tried adjusting the clutch lever thinking it was that, or related to the freeplay, but this only marginally improves or worsens the 'jump' that occurs at 3K.

Ran the diagnostic test (jumper wire into block in dealer mode), and the LCD showed that my TPS was correct (although I had to get the revs to around 1700RPM for the dash symbol to move upwards, as opposed to the recommended 1400, so now I'm really confused.

Also, my display showed -c000 whereas I thought it was supposed to be c- (was this a typo in the instructions?).

Bike now definitely needs to be around 70 degrees or higher to run smoothly.

Taking her back to mechanic on Tuesday for further investigations.......may have to invest in this magic black box.
'Bubs'.

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ozzraptor
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at tepmeratute under 80 deg C

Post by ozzraptor »

xraptor8 wrote:55 years agoRecently had a new clutch cable and actuator fitted.

I commute 8 miles into central london every day, and this has never been an issue.

Occasionally she is chuggy at lower temps, but I never had the full glitch that many of you seem to have experienced, and now it has reared it's ugly head.

Tried adjusting the clutch lever thinking it was that, or related to the freeplay, but this only marginally improves or worsens the 'jump' that occurs at 3K.

Ran the diagnostic test (jumper wire into block in dealer mode), and the LCD showed that my TPS was correct (although I had to get the revs to around 1700RPM for the dash symbol to move upwards, as opposed to the recommended 1400, so now I'm really confused.

Also, my display showed -c000 whereas I thought it was supposed to be c- (was this a typo in the instructions?).

Bike now definitely needs to be around 70 degrees or higher to run smoothly.

Taking her back to mechanic on Tuesday for further investigations.......may have to invest in this magic black box.
I am sure crap tartan will have a better idea but only thing i can think of is something has changed with the clutch switch or the mechs played with something else while they were at it ?
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Re: 3000 rpm gritch at temperature under 80 deg C

Post by shedmonkey »

the revs are important as what you are trying to achieve is correct butterfly opening to throttle position sensor ,maybe worth setting tickover first then adjust tps to suit ct has done some instructions i think. And yes typo on the instructions the dash is the impoortant thing the 00 shows no error code
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